Tim Bray has taken a look back at his first year at Sun, and claims that Java is boring.
He isn’t trying to start a flame war.
Java isn’t boring for many people, and that is fine. It is also a good choice, as he claims, for many tasks.
However, I have to agree with him. PERSONALLY I find Java a little boring. Sorry. Coding in it is boring (I know, I know, if the problem is interesting then who cares about the environment? I do).
I can’t state how many guys who use Java for most of their day job say to me:
“Man, I wish I could get a paying job with Ruby”
These people are playing with Ruby in their spare time. Then they get to do a prototype in it, and then it spreads from there.
Although Java the LANGUAGE is boring, that doesn’t mean the platform is.
I hope that 2005 is the year of more expression in many languages on the JVM. Come on Sun, get in the game. Get more people hacking away on languages like Groovy to see where it takes us. Where is the Sun version of Comega?
Boring Isn
March 15th, 2005 at 10:42 am
I personally can’t wait for all the ruby people to find real jobs and stop living in the java world either.
Programming languages serve a higher need than entertainment purposes in the real world!
For entertainment, I propose reading a book, watching a movie, or hell, coding in ruby if that’s what floats your boat.
March 15th, 2005 at 10:54 am
If it’s boring, you’re not working hard enough. Why can’t YOU turn Java on its head? Why can’t YOU do something new with it? It’s called innovation. Try it sometime. I think you’ll find it to be exciting.
March 15th, 2005 at 11:08 am
Everyone has their opinion. I personally find Java to very exciting. A mature stable platform which has a large developer base and tons of open source projects for it? If thats boring, sign me up.
While I would love to see some of Ruby’s syntax (especially mixins and some form of closures) introduced into java, I find I want to code in my spare time using the same platform I use for my day job. Doing so will only make me get better and more efficient.
Open source projects like Hibernate, Spring, Cglib and many other are pushing the boundaries of java. Not all the good ideas need to come from Sun
March 15th, 2005 at 1:20 pm
That’s the point: the every environment has its own boundaries. It just happens that Ruby’s one is wider.
Hni: you right, only REAL programmers use Java and they build only REAL, SCALABLE, ENTERPRISE systems. The hell with all those Linux amateurs that use Ruby, Perl, Python.
March 15th, 2005 at 1:43 pm
Where is the Sun version of Comega?
Perhaps here: http://www.jroller.com/comments/talipozturk/Weblog/asynchronous_methods_in_java
If you read it you will see that we can do most everything WITHIN Java. You don’t always need a new language. Sometimes you can hack it with annotations and AOP.
March 15th, 2005 at 5:08 pm
Any good programming language should be boring. Something which is boring is something which is rote, well-known. Typing on a keyboard is boring.
But you know what? That means it works. If Ruby or whatever is “exciting” for you what that really means is that you don’t understand it. Note how often the word “new” goes along with “exciting”.
Bruce Eckel and the ThoughtBodies and all the rest find Ruby “exciting” because it’s new and they’re not allowed to use it very often (if at all for) for paying jobs. I’m convinced a number of them also find it “exciting” because they’re losing visibly in the Java world but can look “progressive” by talking about Python or Ruby or whatever. I can guarantee you that’s why most of the windbags (er, Thought Leaders) are so down on Java lately – because it’s no longer new and peopel can see through their bullshit too easily now.
March 15th, 2005 at 5:08 pm
why is java boring. Sun have helped to take a lot of complex, interesting, innovative technologies, and make them easy to use.
java is a good base, and out of java many other technologies are emerging
March 15th, 2005 at 5:50 pm
It’s true that finding jobs that allow Ruby coding is hard to find, but claiming that people are exited about it because of that is a bit far-fetched. Pascal skills are not much sought for either, yet noone seems to be very excited about it.
Moreover, Ruby is 12 years old, so if that’s new, then where does that leave Java?
It’s neither the job availability nor the age of the language that makes people excited about Ruby. It’s the fact that the languages combined with many recent libraries make developers a hell of a lot more productive.
Show me one developer who’s proficient in both Java and Ruby who says otherwise.
Another important reason is that Ruby is a language that was designed with usability in mind (think JIRA versus Bugzilla, Mac versus Wintel, Whiteboard versus Rational Rose).
Most people just want to get their job done in an environment that is intuitive and nice to work in. Many people happen to believe Ruby succeeds better in this than Java.
Spille’s argumentum ad hominem is pathetic at best. I wonder if it occurred to him that some of the former Java OSS stars lost visibility simply because they lost interest in Java when they discovered that it’s worth while expanding horizons in other languages and communities.
One last thing. I disagree that Java is receiving a lot of flak. It’s more that it’s no longer receiving as much attention as before.
March 15th, 2005 at 6:07 pm
I have been skeeing since I was 3. I find skiing very exciting.
Ergo I don’t understand skiing.
March 15th, 2005 at 9:17 pm
Go Dion Go! Ruby rocks! Especially when you “get it” !!!
March 17th, 2005 at 3:04 am
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/001765.html
;-)
March 22nd, 2005 at 9:11 pm
At least ,java is intelligible.I find that it is fun to program in java most of the time.
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