Comments on: Canvas 3D, standards, and where http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where blogging about life, the universe, and everything tech Sat, 08 Sep 2012 07:06:53 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: mp3 teledyski http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where/comment-page-1#comment-40622 mp3 teledyski Sun, 29 Mar 2009 13:20:53 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/?p=2331#comment-40622 I’m a little sad that “Windows” shows up so prominently, but comforted by the fact that “bad” is snuggled up against it. I’m a little sad that “Windows” shows up so prominently, but comforted by the fact that “bad” is snuggled up against it.

]]> By: John Dowdell http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where/comment-page-1#comment-40591 John Dowdell Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:26:48 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/?p=2331#comment-40591 Hi, are you aware that Apple proposed CANVAS to WhatWG, and only with the later rapprochement with W3C revealed that Apple held patents on it? My core concerns about the appropriateness of putting 3D into a HTML spec, or into a CSS spec, remain. Netscape failed when they tried to do too many things and couldn't deliver. SGML also levied a heavier and heavier tax on new implementations. A successful spec would be easier to reliably implement, and would not raise barriers to new competitors. HTML5 is becoming as unreadable as the US tax code. There is certainly proprietary benefit to Apple in keeping tight, clenched control over their own stack. And Google wants to own your audience, selling their eyeballs to marketers. They have proprietary needs for their own runtimes, and are using the blessing of "open HTML5 standard" to become competitive. If you want to make a 3D language for browsers, go right ahead. But I don't want to see HTML risk destruction by such scope-creep. HTML is too valuable to be burdened by the extraneous. If you can't use existing 3D _standards_, then make a new spec. Don't stuff it into HTML. You'll kill it. jd/adobe Hi, are you aware that Apple proposed CANVAS to WhatWG, and only with the later rapprochement with W3C revealed that Apple held patents on it?

My core concerns about the appropriateness of putting 3D into a HTML spec, or into a CSS spec, remain. Netscape failed when they tried to do too many things and couldn’t deliver. SGML also levied a heavier and heavier tax on new implementations. A successful spec would be easier to reliably implement, and would not raise barriers to new competitors. HTML5 is becoming as unreadable as the US tax code.

There is certainly proprietary benefit to Apple in keeping tight, clenched control over their own stack. And Google wants to own your audience, selling their eyeballs to marketers. They have proprietary needs for their own runtimes, and are using the blessing of “open HTML5 standard” to become competitive.

If you want to make a 3D language for browsers, go right ahead. But I don’t want to see HTML risk destruction by such scope-creep. HTML is too valuable to be burdened by the extraneous. If you can’t use existing 3D _standards_, then make a new spec. Don’t stuff it into HTML. You’ll kill it.

jd/adobe

]]> By: Ryan Stewart http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where/comment-page-1#comment-40589 Ryan Stewart Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:57:26 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/?p=2331#comment-40589 Thanks for posting, Dion. The tone in the blog post wasn't meant to be anti-Mozilla and commenting as an Adobe employee it's more of a struggle about how we can participate. It doesn't seem like there is a good way to participate. And sure, Khronos is a standards organization, but is that the way to do things? Work with another standards organization? And the timeline for 3.5 seems fairly close, right? Again, I think on one hand it's great that the browsers are innovating - that's good for the web. It just seems like the old standards organizations have lost a bit of their clout because they don't really work any more. Or maybe ever? =Ryan ryan@adobe.com Thanks for posting, Dion. The tone in the blog post wasn’t meant to be anti-Mozilla and commenting as an Adobe employee it’s more of a struggle about how we can participate. It doesn’t seem like there is a good way to participate. And sure, Khronos is a standards organization, but is that the way to do things? Work with another standards organization?

And the timeline for 3.5 seems fairly close, right? Again, I think on one hand it’s great that the browsers are innovating – that’s good for the web. It just seems like the old standards organizations have lost a bit of their clout because they don’t really work any more. Or maybe ever?

=Ryan
ryan@adobe.com

]]> By: jcartledge http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where/comment-page-1#comment-40587 jcartledge Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:16:57 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/?p=2331#comment-40587 JD went from useful community member to paid troll some years ago. Now he pretends not to understand the difference between a binary-island "ria" container controlled by a single vendor, and community-driven modular solutions backed by standards developed in the open. Sorry for the tone here - I stopped reading him a long time ago when every other post was "I don't understand why people think Flash/Flex/Air is not the open web" and it's disappointing he's still beating that drum. JD went from useful community member to paid troll some years ago. Now he pretends not to understand the difference between a binary-island “ria” container controlled by a single vendor, and community-driven modular solutions backed by standards developed in the open. Sorry for the tone here – I stopped reading him a long time ago when every other post was “I don’t understand why people think Flash/Flex/Air is not the open web” and it’s disappointing he’s still beating that drum.

]]> By: Robert O'Callahan http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where/comment-page-1#comment-40586 Robert O'Callahan Thu, 26 Mar 2009 04:06:53 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/?p=2331#comment-40586 Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't seem to understand that Khronos *is* a standards organization. Part of the problem is that a lot of people don’t seem to understand that Khronos *is* a standards organization.

]]> By: Simon http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where/comment-page-1#comment-40585 Simon Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:53:33 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/?p=2331#comment-40585 I think the key wording in one of those quotes is "proprietary extensions". Calling them 'proprietary' isn't really on the mark here - what we're dealing with is documented extensions that rivals can implement freely. Things are being done in the open, nothing hindering other browser makers from providing the same extensions to turn them into a defacto standard. That's where the best standards come from, I believe - taking existing implementations, smoothing the rough edges, and encouraging everyone to adopt them. Standards not based on existing implementation rarely stand up in the real world. I think the key wording in one of those quotes is “proprietary extensions”. Calling them ‘proprietary’ isn’t really on the mark here – what we’re dealing with is documented extensions that rivals can implement freely. Things are being done in the open, nothing hindering other browser makers from providing the same extensions to turn them into a defacto standard.

That’s where the best standards come from, I believe – taking existing implementations, smoothing the rough edges, and encouraging everyone to adopt them. Standards not based on existing implementation rarely stand up in the real world.

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