Comments on: Swing is still drowning, and how it will be hard to get some air http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air blogging about life, the universe, and everything tech Tue, 03 Jan 2012 22:08:49 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: John Mac http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-46450 John Mac Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:00:30 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-46450 The only threat to Java Swing, is SWT The only threat to Java Swing, is SWT

]]> By: javacommunity http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-46206 javacommunity Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:19:49 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-46206 Final word: Oracle rules in the business industry !!!!!!!!!!!!! Final word: Oracle rules in the business industry !!!!!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: javacommunity http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-46205 javacommunity Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:12:27 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-46205 The real debate should be why are we still using flash anyway? it sux and only profits to adobe (neither end-users or dev gets real advantage of it beside lnf) and ad-banner^^... PS: acrobat reader sux, try to avoid it!!! The real debate should be why are we still using flash anyway? it sux and only profits to adobe (neither end-users or dev gets real advantage of it beside lnf) and ad-banner^^…

PS: acrobat reader sux, try to avoid it!!!

]]> By: javacommunity http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-46204 javacommunity Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:02:20 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-46204 There is no need to debate wether Flex is better or not. Either you want : -your application to run on ANY computers (with java vm installed) -your application to look good (with flash vm or AIR vm installed and a specific os+specific processor (multi-platform/multi-arch doenst mean the same for adobe and for computer scientists^^ Working for most of the stuff and on most of the computer doesnt mean it works multi-platform/multi-arch^^) PS: with jigloo you can design wysiwyg in eclipse. And yeah, netbeans sux, try to avoid it! There is no need to debate wether Flex is better or not.
Either you want :
-your application to run on ANY computers (with java vm installed)
-your application to look good (with flash vm or AIR vm installed and a specific os+specific processor (multi-platform/multi-arch doenst mean the same for adobe and for computer scientists^^ Working for most of the stuff and on most of the computer doesnt mean it works multi-platform/multi-arch^^)

PS: with jigloo you can design wysiwyg in eclipse.
And yeah, netbeans sux, try to avoid it!

]]> By: matt http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-39884 matt Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:52:25 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-39884 some of these comments are insane: "In an ideal world, we’d put WebKit (as its small) or Gecko into the JDK and just use GWT as the long term replacement for Swing." You must be joking. I have never found a single browser based application that can do a sophisticated task like text editing or SVN history diff better than a desktop equivalent. Even billions of $$$ from Google and friends can't make a Mercedes out of a Yugo. some of these comments are insane:

“In an ideal world, we’d put WebKit (as its small) or Gecko into the JDK and just use GWT as the long term replacement for Swing.”

You must be joking. I have never found a single browser based application that can do a sophisticated task like text editing or SVN history diff better than a desktop equivalent. Even billions of $$$ from Google and friends can’t make a Mercedes out of a Yugo.

]]> By: chris http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-38977 chris Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:46:34 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-38977 Well Swing is drowning.... (... what a comparision ;-/) Maybe, but i don't really care, in that case I live a fine life of an amphibian. I really see it the other way around: Swing is in it's core quite a mature technology. Ok you need something like rpc. You've some choice there, for example eclipse and http://www.jgoodies.com/downloads/products.html. Both very good products and valuable alternatives for who still believe in a) The rational for Desktop Applications b) Doen'st want develop against "Native" Api's On the otherhand, whats going on in the webspace is for me largly very irrational and defies any real need of customers, consumers. What's going on in the Webspace is not so much addressing requirements of the enterprise, that just a gigantic fight over who "own's" the computing space: OS vs Browser , Microsoft against the Rest (Google, IBM, Adobe etc). A hype to channel the Enterpises money. Ria Technologies have the one goal: Provide the Richness of a Desktop application. A goal which it largely fails to achieve. And never will (... why, ok, here a heated discussion follows, about architectural issues, distributed computing, architectural constraints etc.....) But, summa summarum: The Web is slow, getting overly complex, expensive to develop, running after irrational goals. Flex Applications just make me as a user sick, beyond the first (short) coolness factor..... Using Flex or Ajax Applications (Google Office Suit for example), i really understand, why people are still largly buying Desktop Operating Systems. Well, if Swing is drowning ... Ria (Ajax, Flex, ....) is the one living proof a Lemming effect: irrational Just my five cents.... Ok, i would love to see a little more attention of the "Java Community" to the Desktop. Well Swing is drowning…. (… what a comparision ;-/)

Maybe, but i don’t really care, in that case I live a fine life of an amphibian.

I really see it the other way around:

Swing is in it’s core quite a mature technology. Ok you need something like rpc. You’ve some choice there, for example eclipse and http://www.jgoodies.com/downloads/products.html. Both very good products and valuable alternatives for who still believe in

a) The rational for Desktop Applications
b) Doen’st want develop against “Native” Api’s

On the otherhand, whats going on in the webspace is for me largly very irrational and defies any real need of customers, consumers. What’s going on in the Webspace is not so much addressing requirements of the enterprise, that just a gigantic fight over who “own’s” the computing space: OS vs Browser , Microsoft against the Rest (Google, IBM, Adobe etc). A hype to channel the Enterpises money.

Ria Technologies have the one goal:

Provide the Richness of a Desktop application.

A goal which it largely fails to achieve. And never will (… why, ok, here a heated discussion follows, about architectural issues, distributed computing, architectural constraints etc…..)

But, summa summarum:
The Web is slow, getting overly complex, expensive to develop, running after irrational goals.

Flex Applications just make me as a user sick, beyond the first (short) coolness factor….. Using Flex or Ajax Applications (Google Office Suit for example), i really understand, why people are still largly buying Desktop Operating Systems.

Well, if Swing is drowning …
Ria (Ajax, Flex, ….) is the one living proof a Lemming effect: irrational

Just my five cents….

Ok, i would love to see a little more attention of the “Java Community” to the Desktop.

]]> By: felix za cat http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-38808 felix za cat Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:15:03 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-38808 Swing is drowning? It has its place, which is the most used rich client technology. Ajax, air, and all those gadgets may have their place in terms of rich internet apps, but if you want something REALLY sophisticated, it needs to break out of the browser and onto the desktop. Swing (and to some degree SWT and Winforms) offers a pure OO environment therefore : extensibility, maintainability, robustness, the power of multi-threading, all the awesome Java language features. AJAX (and all associated Web 2.0 techonology) offers, a messy stack of gadgetry and gimmicks, that is great for doing apps like Facebook and mail programs etc. It will never achieve the sophistication of Swing. For example : can you imagine building IntelliJ/Netbeans in AJAX? You might get some brittle immitation. A bit like Writely is to Microsoft Word. BTW - Can someone explain to me what the point is of having Photoshop in a web browser? If you want to have web interaction, build a desktop app and connect that to the web. Inserting a rich app like Photoshop inside another app (ie a browser), reeks of idiocy. There is no point to it. You lose real estate with the browser buttons at the top, and, i repeat, what is the point? You don't 'browse' a Photoshop session. You USE it. Swing is drowning? It has its place, which is the most used rich client technology. Ajax, air, and all those gadgets may have their place in terms of rich internet apps, but if you want something REALLY sophisticated, it needs to break out of the browser and onto the desktop.

Swing (and to some degree SWT and Winforms) offers a pure OO environment therefore : extensibility, maintainability, robustness, the power of multi-threading, all the awesome Java language features.

AJAX (and all associated Web 2.0 techonology) offers, a messy stack of gadgetry and gimmicks, that is great for doing apps like Facebook and mail programs etc. It will never achieve the sophistication of Swing. For example : can you imagine building IntelliJ/Netbeans in AJAX? You might get some brittle immitation. A bit like Writely is to Microsoft Word.

BTW – Can someone explain to me what the point is of having Photoshop in a web browser? If you want to have web interaction, build a desktop app and connect that to the web. Inserting a rich app like Photoshop inside another app (ie a browser), reeks of idiocy. There is no point to it. You lose real estate with the browser buttons at the top, and, i repeat, what is the point? You don’t ‘browse’ a Photoshop session. You USE it.

]]> By: merys http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-38717 merys Mon, 02 Jun 2008 17:09:01 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-38717 very good <a href="http://swik.net/buy-xanax/" rel="nofollow"><b>buy xanax</b></a> very good
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]]> By: Mark http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-37900 Mark Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:54:31 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-37900 "but is it too late? " It's always too late. Comebacks are rare and far between. Java has it's place, but I doubt the desktop is going to be one of them. That said, I'd love for the "N" update to be the spark that ignited a revival, but who's holding their breath? JavaFX was just a rebranding of a pet-project as a rapid response to Silverlight. It's pretty much DOA “but is it too late? ”

It’s always too late. Comebacks are rare and far between. Java has it’s place, but I doubt the desktop is going to be one of them.

That said, I’d love for the “N” update to be the spark that ignited a revival, but who’s holding their breath?

JavaFX was just a rebranding of a pet-project as a rapid response to Silverlight. It’s pretty much DOA

]]> By: Vic http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air/comment-page-1#comment-37898 Vic Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:42:13 +0000 http://almaer.com/blog/swing-is-still-drowning-and-how-it-will-be-hard-to-get-some-air#comment-37898 Java is OK w/ add on of: http://www.jgoodies.com/products/details.html The difference is deployent, Adobe and MS Sliverlight, each help you deploy direct, while Sun instead expects each developers to deploy the run time from developers web site. In Flex, there's java script that redirects to Adobe web site to get the update. W/ Java applet, each developer is expected to host java exec for download w/ the Sun provided javascript on developer web site, not from the Sun web site. (even then, the # of pop ups to install jre is huge, and some corporate admins ban installation of jre from the web, especially that jre was not downloaded from Sun.com ) This is why end users have easier time deploying Flex applets and that is why there is a bigger market of Flash or Sliverlight end users. Since there are more end users ... developers follow. Who cares which is better, which one makes it easier for end users? Java applets are drowning. Java is OK w/ add on of:
http://www.jgoodies.com/products/details.html

The difference is deployent, Adobe and MS Sliverlight, each help you deploy direct, while Sun instead expects each developers to deploy the run time from developers web site. In Flex, there’s java script that redirects to Adobe web site to get the update. W/ Java applet, each developer is expected to host java exec for download w/ the Sun provided javascript on developer web site, not from the Sun web site. (even then, the # of pop ups to install jre is huge, and some corporate admins ban installation of jre from the web, especially that jre was not downloaded from Sun.com )
This is why end users have easier time deploying Flex applets and that is why there is a bigger market of Flash or Sliverlight end users.
Since there are more end users … developers follow. Who cares which is better, which one makes it easier for end users?

Java applets are drowning.

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